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[CLOSED][Skill] Battle Hunger


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Poll: [Skill] Battle Hunger (10 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like the idea?

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#1 ektegjetost

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 04:14 PM

Current Battle Hunger

QUOTE

IPB Image Battle Hunger

Afflicts a target with a terrible killing hunger. The target will take damage per second until it kills a unit.

Level 1 - 15 damage/second, lasts 10 seconds.
Level 2 - 15 damage/second, lasts 15 seconds.
Level 3 - 20 damage/second, lasts 20 seconds.
Level 4 - 25 damage/second, lasts 25 seconds.

Cooldown: 25/20/15/10 seconds.

Level 1: 75 mana, 25 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 85 mana, 20 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 95 mana, 15 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 105 mana, 10 sec cooldown.


New Battle Hunger

QUOTE

IPB Image Battle Hunger

Axe's voracity for battle numbs him to pain as he races towards death.

Level 1 - Regenerates 19 hit points per second, increases move speed by 3%, lasts 6 seconds.
Level 2 - Regenerates 20 hit points per second, increases move speed by 5%, lasts 9 seconds.
Level 3 - Regenerates 21 hit points per second, increases move speed by 7%, lasts 12 seconds.
Level 4 - Regenerates 22 hit points per second, increases move speed by 9%, lasts 15 seconds.

Cooldown: 20 seconds.

Level 1: 80 mana, 20 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 100 mana, 20 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 120 mana, 20 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 140 mana, 20 sec cooldown.


As I'm sure many of you can calculate yourselves, the heal offers 114/180/252/330 hp respectively. When calculating the numbers, I slated them against Purify which offers more hp at higher levels (90/180/270/360), more reliability (instantaneous), damage, and lower CD (12 seconds) offset by a higher mana cost (100/120/140/160 on a hero that uses more mana buffs in their item build). Therefore I don't think the extra move speed makes this skill unbalanced (I realize both heroes have different roles, but I'm just trying to gauge the overall power of this skill).

Reason for the change:

As many of you may agree; save pubs, battle hunger is often replaced by stats.

This change provides synergy with Berserker's Call with the extra survivability while being attacked, as well as chasing heroes to use Call since call has such a short CD and can often be used more than once in a fight. It also provides synergy with Culling Blade given the increased move speed and short range of Culling Blade.

Since common item builds for Axe often include hp regen items, this change would reinforce his item build as well.

Let me know what you think, and please post your reasoning whether you like the idea or not. I would say vote on the concept rather than the numbers, but I don't think that actually happens so I tried to make it as balanced as I could. Still though, everything is subject to change.

#2 Bookston

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 04:22 PM

QUOTE

Reason for the change:

As many of you may agree; save pubs, battle hunger is often replaced by stats.


Maelk:
QUOTE

    Q1 : What's your item/skill build for the (underestimate) axe ?



If I get to solo him, I get Battle Hunger and play the lane 'smart'. If I jungle, I just get Berserkers Call. I get Hood if they have a lot of magical damage, otherwise I get Vanguard and possibly Linkens if I opted for Battle Hunger build.


With the removal of Blink Dagger, Axe is already a very viable option for competitive play and a movement speed bonus + heal is definitely a huge buff, which is unneeded. At most, he needs a minor buff like more stats. And as I quoted, his battle hunger skill is not exactly useless either.

Edited by Bookston, 11 June 2008 - 04:28 PM.


#3 Torchic Maniac

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE
This change provides synergy with Berserker's Call with the extra survivability while being attacked, as well as chasing heroes to use Call since call has such a short CD and can often be used more than once in a fight. It also provides synergy with Culling Blade given the increased move speed and short range of Culling Blade.


A lot of HP and regeneration items can replace this skill easily and Axe isn't the one that gets mana items, so I don't know how he can support this skill like this.

In my opinion, Battle Hunger needs to replace by a skill that does just about the same role.  He doesn't need any more defense.  So a regeneration skill like this seems needless to me, especially since it is not ally castable (that's why your example with Purification sucks because it is meant to be a support skill with some offensive usage; your skill is just a standard buff for Axe)

#4 ektegjetost

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 04:50 PM

I seem to remember that quote now that you use it.

Though besides an early game solo lane (however often that happens I have no idea) when is battle hunger ever used? Seems far more situational than my suggested change. In the recent mym vs mouz mock draft game, Maelk didn't get one point of battle hunger. He wasn't a solo lane, but at level 19 it still goes to show that it's a situational skill.

Though I can see where you're coming from about it being too large a buff now that I look at it again.

QUOTE
A lot of HP and regeneration items can replace this skill easily and Axe isn't the one that gets mana items, so I don't know how he can support this skill like this.


Yea it's definitely not spammable, but i don't see why he wouldn't be able to support it mid-late game.

QUOTE
In my opinion, Battle Hunger needs to replace by a skill that does just about the same role. He doesn't need any more defense. So a regeneration skill like this seems needless to me, especially since it is not ally castable (that's why your example with Purification sucks because it is meant to be a support skill with some offensive usage; your skill is just a standard buff for Axe)


The comparison between it and purify was simply to gauge the benefit of the skill. I was making sure the numbers weren't too high.

The MS boost provides a similar role to BH as you can get them into Calling range.

I can see that the benefits of regeneration are diminished by items and stats, but what kind of stat gain would you need to give a similar amount of survivability, and how much gold would you need to spend to make up for the regeneration? Still, I agree it's sort of weak.

Edited by ektegjetost, 11 June 2008 - 05:01 PM.


#5 dargon_knight

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 09:32 PM

a little mana-intensive, especially since it  sounds like it is meant to be used with his other spells

#6 whipwhip

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:16 PM

I still prefer the old battle hunger than this. This can be replaced by so many items. And the concept of this is similar to Stygwyr's Blood thirst.

t down

#7 mastershan

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 03:23 AM

1. Your remake doesn't fit his concept. He has no excuse for healing himself and his move speed is his main weakness.
2. Even though i don't get battle hunger except a few circumstances, it is a good tool to scare and harass people. Your remake takes away this effect.
3. As you and the others have already told, he doesn't have enough mana to use this skill effectively.

I think a remake for battle hunger should still be a kind of debuff.

#8 Belforg

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 10:28 AM

If you get this skill early game, you can easily kill heroes with a low HP value. Axe is already a good tank, there is no need of improving him in this way.  td.gif

#9 OmgDrow

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 02:31 AM

A few months ago I would say that an idiot wrote this reply, but the battle hunger skill is actually quite usefull.
A potential 625 dmg DoT (minus spell dmg reduction and regen) with 10 sec cooldown and 105 manacost just talks for itself.
Axe is a tank and if he wants to chase he can buy the MS. Giving the ms boost and a heal to a hero in 1 skill isn't tank-like. Its a chaser skill and therefore doesn't fit his role (taking a lot of punishment and KS-ing smile.gif )
T-down

#10 Legacy_Tangent

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 05:49 AM

Meh at this remake. It doesn't even fit the old purpose. Just makes him into some kind of chaser that axe wasn't meant to be.

#11 Cigaro

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:19 AM

Thread starter: At this point, your suggestion has either received less than 60% positive votes or will not be able to reach that ratio at a total of 15 votes. Seeing as how this rating is a reflection of the community's opinion regarding the viability of your suggestion, I'm afraid this particular proposal isn't quite ready for DotA yet. If you belive this idea is worth a second chance, I advise you to rethink it as a whole. Reposting it without fundamental modifications would serve little if any purpose - it will just be as badly received by the community as this one has. Anyhow, good luck with your future suggestions!

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