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Visage, the Necro'lic


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#21 Gerbear

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 04:25 PM

Even in high level play, I think you severly overestimate cloak and underestimate Grave Chill, but whatever.

#22 xphoenix87

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:02 PM

Excellent guide, though I'm not sure I agree entirely with it. I've played around with Visage a lot, and I think he needs a tad more survivability than you're giving him early game. If you end up getting Mek after HoM, then I think you're fine, but since you don't reccomend that as a core part of the item build, I think you're going to end up a gank magnet too much. Bracers are good and I've used them before with him effectively, but they delay your progress towards your 2 main items, Heart and Radiance. I'm thinking that it might be a viable alternative to get your Vit Booster before Radiance, then get the rest of Heart after your shiny sword is finished. It gets you that early HP you need, and it goes into HoT later so you aren't delaying your core items.  Anyway, something to think about at any rate.

For skills, I find it hard to justify skipping Reverants at lvl 6. If you can micro effectively, they're still useful for uber-last hitting/denying against any hero that doesn't have non-ult AoE. At the very least, they're free observer wards, except they're better because they're flying and get massive LoS. I think it's hard to give that up for an extra 5% on cloak.

For items after the 2nd Heart (which you'll rarely get to, but still) I think Euls seems like a better option than Dr Aegis, unless the game has been REALLY slow. Honestly, there's very little chance you'd actually get to Dr Aegis after finishing the 2nd Heart. However, if you get Euls, you quickly get an item that can immediately change the game by keeping the opposing team's best hero occupied by the cyclone of gg. I know you don't need the mana regen, but if the game still hasn't ended at that point, it's probably pretty close, and cyclone stick could really swing things your way. Just a thought.

In easily countered heroes, you might want to mention that travelling with a few reverents (before you get lvl 3 ult) makes Luna and Juggy cry, since  you can basically be permanently sitting in a creepwave.

Great job on the guide. I like your Clinkz guide a bit more, but this one is defeintely excellent.

#23 Xxiangx_

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:43 PM

i agree with your guide... but i would rather ply a pusher necrolic... i get BoT, radiance, mekansm, RoB, soulbooster/tarrasque and i get vladmirs for creeps.... with those birdies, necrolic can push like mad....

#24 orlouge

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:59 PM

Oh! Another advice to improve the guide could be a more focused description on the visage's skills to enlight people about how do the skills really work. eg:
the grave chill reduces x% of the move and attack speed of the enemy BUT gives you x% of the move and attack speed YOU HAVE (so really doesn't matter who you chill for run and attack speed purpose), etc... gotta go now got a scrim.... i'll complete laater the idea cyaz

#25 davechen

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 01:36 AM

gave me something to do in dota...CHANGE MY PLAY STYLE WITH VISAGE XD had i game where i had heart but no radiance and i was minimal help to my allies.

good guide

take care
-david


#26 Beast_Pete

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 05:39 AM

I uploaded two screenshots for scouting and an animated gif for one of the replays. Check it out!

Mini-clip.

#27 Nightmare4Peer

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:19 AM

why no necro, it gives him all he needs-_-

#28 KeyboardControl

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE(Dru.NEt @ Nov 12 2006, 07:27 PM) View Post

do you recommend vanguards on visage?
it helps with general survivability until you farm up the dps items.


Vanguard has a 60% chance to nullify a specific damage... which is not good to visage because it will not complement to your 3rd skill because it will not consider the nullified damage as your damage so the 20% damage return will not kick in. Instead of getting vanguard, heart is really a better choice.

#29 Beast_Pete

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:51 AM

QUOTE(Nightmare4Peer @ Nov 14 2006, 05:19 PM) View Post
why no necro, it gives him all he needs-_-


Nope, it does not give all he needs. He does not need much INT and mana regen, he doesn't need even more creeps to micro, it's up to one of your allies (in m clans Bane buys Necronomicon). Also, for STR Heart is a much better choice.

@KeyboardControl: totally agree.

#30 JooN-

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 05:40 PM

I love your guide format, I'm kinda wishing I stole it =X

You might want to re-read your guide again; there are some typos like

QUOTE

Strong AoE Spells
A widely used combo is Blackhole + Freezing Field, which lets the Sentinel kill all or most of the Scourge heroes if it was casted successfully. However it is a deadly combo for themselves too, if they catch Visage. 20% damage returend is really a lot and as a Visage you ought to be aiming for Heart, it shouldn't be a big problem for you to survive this combo.


I've heard about carry visage and how he was imba, but I've never seen it in a guide format. Your guide makes me want to try playing visage as carry.

One question though, wouldn't one point in gravechill early game help you escape ganks in case you failed to notice it coming?

Another question, when I played visage, I really didn't notice gravekeeper's cloak in action, like the enemy would be hitting me but I never saw any significant damage done to them. Am I just not noticing things or there something wrong?

Overall, I think this guide is very well done. Great job tongue.gif Oh and go bump my vs guide up please tongue.gif

Edited by talkinkorean, 15 November 2006 - 05:41 PM.


#31 Beast_Pete

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 02:51 AM

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post

I love your guide format, I'm kinda wishing I stole it =X


Feel free to do so. I made my guide template public. wink.gif

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post
You might want to re-read your guide again; there are some typos like


Thanks for pointing out that one.

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post
I've heard about carry visage and how he was imba, but I've never seen it in a guide format. Your guide makes me want to try playing visage as carry.


I hope you'll have good time owning with him. Visage is really the king of late games and is still dominating early-mid games.

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post
One question though, wouldn't one point in gravechill early game help you escape ganks in case you failed to notice it coming?


Nope, it wouldn't. If you turn back to cast it, then the first thing you'll see is a hammer/ice bolt/etc stuns flying towards you. The best you can do is trying to juke the opponents.

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post
Another question, when I played visage, I really didn't notice gravekeeper's cloak in action, like the enemy would be hitting me but I never saw any significant damage done to them. Am I just not noticing things or there something wrong?


You should be noticing it and mostly when massive AoE is spammed on you and on your team. Just watch the ToG vs FakkerZ replay, where I manage to farm up for 2 Hearts. In the end it can easily be seen how much Cloak own them (and it's also 6.32b in which Cloak is not 20 bzut 28%).

QUOTE(talkinkorean @ Nov 16 2006, 01:40 AM) View Post
Overall, I think this guide is very well done. Great job tongue.gif Oh and go bump my vs guide up please tongue.gif


Thanks. smile.gif
Ohh, and: ov cors. biggrin.gif

#32 RainwalkerC

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 12:20 AM

greate guide, we need more guides that tells what heroes are good against this hero not only wut heroes its good against


#33 thailehuy

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 12:31 AM

Wouldnt Visage be a good meka carrier ? He doesnt use that much mana anyway, and meka heal his revenants. Why make meka optional ?

I found out that Visage is very imba in farming, last game I played I got radience at lvl 12, even with crappy last hit early game (10-3 or something till lvl 6) dry.gif Yay for big item rush, my Visage has a boot, headress and radience tongue.gif So I would suggest getting grave chill at lvl 12-15.

P.S: next guide I write, I gonna steal your template

#34 kauton

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:03 AM

Good guide, almost the way I played it last time. No HoM though, and I got an Aegis to boost survivability late game.

Here is a replay. Very interesting I think, nice pushes from both sides, the sents almost killed our crystal during one, I even had to  buy myself out. Then we did strike back and we heard "Timbeeeeer" wink.gif. I finished on the top of the rank which never happened to me before with Visage wink.gif.

Map is 6.38b

Attached Files



#35 Kleech

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 08:12 PM

ahh i wanted to be the one to come out with this build.. @.@ Darn. I'll read through it asap.


Great guide, I only don't feel you scretched the importance of farming with those bats. As soon as they hit level 11 they should be pumping into neutrals. Level 3 can take ancients, and you can quickly position the revs over the trees so they take as little damage as possible. Level 1.. meh. I use it for denying like mad, but you can use them to scout I guess..


But neutral creeping all the time while you are farming/ganking/pushing is 1337sauce.

Edited by Kleech, 17 November 2006 - 08:20 PM.


#36 JIMAge

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 05:03 AM

At first glance my thoughts were: holy shit, farming up BoT, radiance and midas by lvl15? What were you thinking! But since I watched one of the replays and tryed it, I have no doubts it can be easily achieved. Actually, I did it only by 17-18, but I didn't have a solo lane and also some people kept on disturbing me on phone tongue.gif
Sometimes I found myself out of mana using this build. Wouldn't maybe a RoB be an alternative (and maybe better) start instead of RoR?
And also a hint: the statistics of the revenants would be welcome... actually I missed them. wink.gif I'm blind.
Most of my friends (okay, I admit, for a time including me) considered visage one of the weakest heroes. I had to face the fact what a mistake we did.

N1 Petya!

Edited by JIMAge, 18 November 2006 - 05:05 AM.


#37 LinkStatic

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 06:25 AM

QUOTE
@xuanliang: where did I say that Visage is an Agility hero?


Take a look at the pictures you provided.

IPB Image

Oddly enough, Visage is shown to be an agility hero. Do clarify this in your guide, as this may confuse newer users.

#38 Kleech

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 06:30 AM

No where does it say agility hero there...

oh. the foot. -.o wow.. does anyone even pay attention to that?

Edited by Kleech, 19 November 2006 - 06:31 AM.


#39 Beast_Pete

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:49 AM

The foot is always at the center, isn't it? huh.gif

#40 JIMAge

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 08:29 AM

No, it should be a brain, if it is an int hero, and fist if a str hero.




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