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[Hero] Strygwyr, Bloodseeker


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#1 Test_Subject

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 12:33 PM

THIS IS A POTENTIAL TOPIC. IF YOU ARE NOT A POTENTIAL VOTER GO HERE

QUOTE
IPB Image
An unusual hybrid of Demon and Orc, Strygwyr is an outcast amongst all mortal creatures. By thriving on and bathing himself with the blood of those he slays, Strygwyr can heal his wounds - even those that could prove fatal. Beware the fool who dares venturing alone, for Strygwyr can sense his blood miles away and gain vison through his helpless prey's eyes. Having ruptured the enemy with mighty blows in his bloodthirsty frenzies, Strygwyr corners his foe into making the impossible decision - bleed to death by trying to outrun the hasty demon, or be ripped to shreds in its awesome fury.

CURRENT
QUOTE
IPB ImageBloodrage
Drives a unit into a bloodthristy rage. That unit is unable to cast spells, has its attack damage increased, and loses a small amount of hit points every second.

Level 1 - 20% damage increase, loses 20 HP per second. 6 seconds.
Level 2 - 40% damage increase, loses 15 HP per second. 9 seconds.
Level 3 - 60% damage increase, loses 10 HP per second. 12 seconds.
Level 4 - 80% damage increase, loses 5 HP per second. 15 seconds.

Cooldown: 10
Manacost: 80

Level 1: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.

QUOTE
IPB ImageBlood Bath
Whenever Strygwyr kills a unit, he bathes himself in the blood, regenerating his life source.

Level 1 - 10% of the Hero's max hp. 5% for creeps.
Level 2 - 20% of the Hero's max hp. 10% for creeps.
Level 3 - 30% of the Hero's max hp. 15% for creeps.
Level 4 - 40% of the Hero's max hp. 20% for creeps.

Passive

QUOTE
IPB ImageStrygwyr's Thirst
Enables Strygwyr to sense the bleeding of any enemy hero below 40% hp. If it finds one, Strygwyr gains vision of that unit and increases move speed.

Level 1 - 11% movement increase, small area.
Level 2 - 22% movement increase, moderate area.
Level 3 - 33% movement increase, large area.
Level 4 - 44% movement increase, huge area.

Passive

QUOTE
IPB ImageRupture
Deals a mighty blow to the enemy causing any movement to result in bleeding and loss of life.

Level 1 - 150 damage, 20% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 5 seconds.
Level 2 - 250 damage, 40% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 7 seconds.
Level 3 - 350 damage, 60% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 9 seconds.

Cooldown: 100 seconds.

Level 1: 150 mana, 100 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 200 mana, 100 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 250 mana, 100 sec cooldown.


PROPOSED
QUOTE
IPB ImageBloodrage
Drives a unit into a bloodthristy rage. That unit is unable to cast spells, has its attack damage increased, and loses a small amount of hit points every second.

Level 1 - 20% damage increase, loses 20 HP per second. 6 seconds.
Level 2 - 40% damage increase, loses 15 HP per second. 9 seconds.
Level 3 - 60% damage increase, loses 10 HP per second. 12 seconds.
Level 4 - 80% damage increase, loses 5 HP per second. 15 seconds.

Cooldown: 10
Manacost: 80

Level 1: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 80 mana, 10 sec cooldown.

This skill was just buffed. It does what it is supposed to sufficiently well. It gets no change.

QUOTE
IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image Coagulation
Strygwyr is able to reach out and touch the very blood in the veins of his foes. By slowing the flow and forcing it to coagulate, he is able to cause them crippling pain and debilitation. His foes will sporadically convulse in agony as their thickened blood lurches through their body.

Level 1 - -15% attack speed, 0.1s ministuns, 20 damage
Level 2 - -20% attack speed, 0.15s ministuns, 30 damage
Level 3 - -25% attack speed, 0.20s ministuns, 40 damage
Level 4 - -30% attack speed, 0.25s ministuns, 50 damage
Ministuns and damage every 2 seconds

Cooldown: 20 seconds
Duration: 6/8/8/10 seconds
Manacost: 60/80/100/120

This adds further to the stay and fight/try to outrun. The idea is supposed to be if you are Ruptured, you stay and die or run and die. If you consider how useless Rupture is against good players (hold position) and how Strygwyr needs Bloodbath and Thirst to be useful at all, 1v1 Strygwyr will probably lose. Always. With this, the hero now actually has to make a decision on trying to fight.

(icons)
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resourc...3Dlist%26r%3D20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resourc...3Dlist%26r%3D20
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resourc...3Dlist%26r%3D20

QUOTE
IPB ImageStrygwyr's Thirst
Strygwyr's intense desire for blood allows him to sense the bleeding of enemy heroes below 40% HP. When he scores a kill, he relishes in the bloodshed, restoring his energy. (He gains only half life for creep kills)

Level 1 - 25% movement increase, small area. Heals 15% on a kill.
Level 2 - 33.3% movement increase, moderate area. Heals 19% on a kill.
Level 3 - 41.6% movement increase, large area. Heals 23% on a kill.
Level 4 - 50% movement increase, huge area. Heals 27% on a kill.

Passive

I combined Thirst and Bloodbath. Why? Because they don't really need to be seperate. Also, considering that Rage is practically passive, it allows him to get an active instead of just leveling two passives in the beginning of the game. The only real buffs are the movespeed and heal, both of which just at low levels. When maxed, it does nothing the two didn't do seperately.

Note: The tooltop part for the old Bloodbath is green because it is added to Thirst. The numbers are in red because they are nerfed.

QUOTE
IPB ImageRupture
Strygwyr uses his mastery of blood circulation to raise the blood pressure of a target unit, rupturing several key arteries and causing any movement to result in bleeding and loss of life.

Level 1 - 150 damage, 20% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 5 seconds.
Level 2 - 250 damage, 40% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 7 seconds.
Level 3 - 350 damage, 60% of distance moved in damage. Lasts 9 seconds.

Cooldown: 100 seconds.

Level 1: 150 mana, 100 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 200 mana, 100 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 250 mana, 100 sec cooldown.

New tooltip by BrokenSpear ( http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=230363 )

POTENTIAL VOTING SCORECARD
QUOTE
Number of Votes: 5 (9.1, 9.0, 10.0, 4.0, 8.3)
Current Vote Average: 8.08
Last Time Updated: 9 March, 2009
Voters posting: sidelsky18, agentnee_09, asam3, dante, {Avenger}DaNTe{JaCKaSS}, epsilonv


VOTING TEMPLATE
QUOTE
Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (3.0)
2) Is the concept balanced? (2.0)
3) Is the remake necessary? (1.5)
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (1.0)
5) Is the remake fun? (1.5)
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (1.0)

Score: X/10
Comments:

Edited by Test_Subject, 08 March 2009 - 09:59 PM.


#2 sidelsky18

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 06:07 PM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (2.6)
2) Is the concept balanced? (1.5)
3) Is the remake necessary? (1.5)
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (1.0)
5) Is the remake fun? (1.5)
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (1.0)

Score: 9.1/10
Comments:

Thirst and Bloodbath together was a good idea, but the second skill makes no sense whatsoever, I have no idea what it even does.

#3 Test_Subject

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:06 AM

The second skill is sort of like Malefice, but it also slows their attack speed. While the ministuns slightly conflict with Rupture, it's better than a TP escape. It also allows Strygwyr to actually do something 1v1, as he really has little use in a team battle aside from silencing enemy casters.

#4 zero|nine

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 06:43 PM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? - 2.5
2) Is the concept balanced? - 2.0
3) Is the remake necessary? - 1.5
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? - 1.0
5) Is the remake fun? - 1.0
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? - 1.0

Score: 9/10
Comments:
Coagulation is a great skill addition to BS, makes him up to par (or maybe even better) with another ganker hero such as NS.. My only concern is now Bloodrage will be more of a self buff skill, and imo the skill still needs to be reworked. Gj though.

Edited by agentnee_09, 16 January 2009 - 06:48 PM.


#5 asam3

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 07:20 AM

10/10?

and i'm guessing you came from DP before

#6 {Avenger}DaNTe{JaCKaSS}

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 04:07 AM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (1.5)
Consistent, though not original.
2) Is the concept balanced? (0.0)
No.
3) Is the remake necessary? (0.75)
Half necessary.
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (0.75)
Indeed, though I had a hard time to understand what the new spell does.
5) Is the remake fun? (0.5)
Could possibly be, but do think the new spell ruins Seeker's concept.
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (0.5)
Were there any?  huh.gif

Score: 4/10

Comments: Generally giving Seeker a mini-stun is a bad idea. He's a ganker with a silence that wrecks casters and with the str buff and rupture buff he needs another way of gaining the edge over his opponents. This just makes for his -already weak- victims harder to escape the silence+rupture. I agree with merging Thirst and Bath but the new skill is purely out of theme, as well it won't help vs those who would still beat him but make it even harder to escape him, since no tp.

Btw, numbers are awful too. I mean come on! 50% ms? Weird leveling too? Keep the old ones on both thirst and bath imho. And Coagulation lasts 10 sec? oO

#7 epsilonv

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 05:29 AM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (2.5)
2) Is the concept balanced? (1.0)
3) Is the remake necessary? (1.3)
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (1.0)
5) Is the remake fun? (1.5)
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (1.0)

Score: 8.3/10
Comments: I liked the concept of the second skill, it really makes rupture a lot more effective, IMO and the idea of adding thirst and bath together was great, there isn't really a need to separate them in the first place. The remake is needed because i believe that many people got tired of the current bloodseeker.

#8 Test_Subject

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE
and i'm guessing you came from DP before
What?

QUOTE
Comments: I liked the concept of the second skill, it really makes rupture a lot more effective, IMO and the idea of adding thirst and bath together was great, there isn't really a need to separate them in the first place. The remake is needed because i believe that many people got tired of the current bloodseeker.
I...don't really have anything to say to this but thanks for the input.


QUOTE
1) Is the concept original and consistent? (1.5)
Consistent, though not original.
Not really much to say about this. I got the points, and the combining of the passives was somewhat common. Coagulation is sort of like malefice, but x is sort of like y.

QUOTE

2) Is the concept balanced? (0.0)
No.
Wow. Thanks. If you look at the other thread, there was a good amount of discussion over balance. And saying "no" doesn't help me at all. What's wrong with it? Also, 0.0 means that everything about him is a game breaker. When skills are merged (and nerfed) and one new skill is made...it's not I gave him global rupture.

QUOTE

3) Is the remake necessary? (0.75)
Half necessary.
Mmm

QUOTE

4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (0.75)
Indeed, though I had a hard time to understand what the new spell does.


QUOTE

5) Is the remake fun? (0.5)
Could possibly be, but do think the new spell ruins Seeker's concept.
Really? His concept points are: Blood. Run/die. That's it. How does that ruin the concept? It is unarguably blood based. As for run/die, it makes that significant if he doesn't have rupture. If they stay, they need to live with -IAS and ministuns. If they run, they need to be fast enough to deal with the ministuns.

QUOTE

6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (0.5)
Were there any?
Eh, the only thing it's missing is the coagulation graphic. I changed text, which is otherwise the only cosmetic change.

QUOTE
Comments: Generally giving Seeker a mini-stun is a bad idea. He's a ganker with a silence that wrecks casters and with the str buff and rupture buff he needs another way of gaining the edge over his opponents. This just makes for his -already weak- victims harder to escape the silence+rupture. I agree with merging Thirst and Bath but the new skill is purely out of theme, as well it won't help vs those who would still beat him but make it even harder to escape him, since no tp.

Btw, numbers are awful too. I mean come on! 50% ms? Weird leveling too? Keep the old ones on both thirst and bath imho. And Coagulation lasts 10 sec? oO

As for the ministun, nobody in the old thread agrees.Back to the concept. It actually will help with those who would beat him. Ministun and -IAS? That's useless.
QUOTE(story)
Strygwyr corners his foe into making the impossible decision - bleed to death by trying to outrun the hasty demon, or be ripped to shreds in its awesome fury.
It doesn't say "escape safely," it says "bleed to death trying." I'd say that this helps them bleed to death.

The 50% ms has a reason. I prefer nice even numbers when maxed. As for the rest of the numbers, it was atrocious at level 1. 11% ms? Hooray! Too bad that won't help you grab a kill early game. At least with 25%, there is a noticeable boost at level 1. Combining them with no nerf (the one on BB) wouldn't really make it balanced. I just took it down a bit.

As for coag length, it could come down some.

#9 PS2MAN

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 03:30 AM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (3.0)

Its exactly the same as before with a second skill that makes no sense at all. 0/3

2) Is the concept balanced? (2.0)

No. Nothing is balanced around giving Bloodseeker the ability to silence 1 caster for 15 seconds aswell as being able to stop channeling spells on another. 0/2

3) Is the remake necessary? (1.5)

Not at all. In the current meta Bloodseeker is fine after his recent buff. Any problems he still has has not been fixed by this remake without making him broken. 0/1.5

4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (1.0)

You get a point here, since presentation has nothing todo with the suggestion itself. 1/1

5) Is the remake fun? (1.5)

Hell no. 0/1.5

6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (1.0)

Same cosmetics. The only change made is not explained, and thats why Seeker needs the ability to disable 2 casters at once. 0/1

Score: 1/10

Comments: This is one of the most broken remake suggestions for Bloodseeker that I have seen. How the hell it became Potential is beyond me.

Edited by PS2MAN, 14 March 2009 - 03:31 AM.


#10 Test_Subject

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:44 PM

1. This is oxymoronic. Exactly the same and different? And somehow neither original nor consistent? It fits with his lore and I have an original skill. So...there was no reason to take off points here.
2. All he was given was a skill that gives ministuns. It doesn't make him a #1 pick hero that destroys every hero that even approaches him.
3. Hmm
4. Hmm
5. You can't imagine any way you could have fun playing with this hero? OK.
6. Good lord. Even aside from the fact that text is a cosmetic, I didn't do cosmetics on one skill. And that's animation. I have three icons to pick from. So by missing the animation on a skill, there are no cosmetics?

Score will be added when I get to it.

Edited by Test_Subject, 15 March 2009 - 12:51 PM.


#11 c0Ld1

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 04:07 PM

Right..because BS isnt strong enough already?

#12 daveygravey

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:14 PM

Suggestion: Strygwyr, Bloodseeker
Suggestor: Test_Subject

1) Is the concept original and consistent? (2.0/3.0)
somewhat original with the new skill but still kept all 4 of the old skills with the only difference being combining 2 of them.
2) Is the concept balanced? (.50/2.0)
bs simply shouldnt have any form of stun or there is no getting any, he can already silence, chase at max, and force a target to stand still and now he makes it impossible for that target to tp out or have enough damage output to fight back.
3) Is the remake necessary? (1.0/1.5)
He has seen limited competitive play and could use a few minor buffs to reach his potential but its not the most necessary remake.
4) Is the suggestion clean and well-presented? (1.0/1.0)
Yes.
5) Is the remake fun? (1.0/1.5)
Very fun if i was playing him, no if I was against him.
6) Are the cosmetics of the remake well-explained? (1.0/1.0)
Yes.

Score: 6.75/10
Comments: i think combining thirst and bloodbath into 1 skill has some possibilities and i like the new tooltip for rupture. coagulation is too strong on him, but i think tweaking the theme and numbers to fit for another hero could make it an interesting skill elsewhere. it was a nice effort but a little too strong for my taste.

#13 bonusa

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:22 AM

I like seeker the way he is now, yo say he's useless 1v1, what happened to rupture enemy bloodrage yourself AND HAVE A MKB IF THEY WANNA TELE AWAY

#14 Test_Subject

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:38 PM

Why are you non-potential people in here? Should I make that header bigger and...redder?

If you mean 1v1, as an entire 1v1 game, it doesn't matter. The game is not balanced for 1v1 and it is weak. As for 1v1 within a 5v5, he is only useful if he can catch a glass hero or a hero that is already mostly dead. Otherwise, they will just whack him upside the head. Or not travel alone?

And look at the date. Back when this was suggested he was crap and never picked.

I actually don't even like this remake any more. Coagulate is not as interesting as I previously thought. I like combining the passives, because passives are really boring, but...I don't know what should be put there. Eh. Um. I don't know. Something interesting and blood related. Whatever. Cumulative score like 7 or so.




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